When I was in the band Dryve I had the experience of touring on what many call the ‘Christian music circuit’ -or the ‘CCM’ (contemporary Christian music) circuit.
Often it was cool, often it was lame and often it was just downright surreal.
For some reason in the Midwest -the ‘bible belt’- as it is often called- the water park seemed to be the hip place to have an all day Christian music festival sort of thing. So I got to play a number of those with some of the big wigs in CCM like Michael W. Smith and Steven Curtis Chapman as the headliners. We in fact played so many of these that when people asked what kind of music we played we began to tell them, “It’s pretty much your average ‘park rock'”.
One day as we were waiting around -which you do A LOT in a band*- for our turn to ‘rock the park’, a nice enough, normal looking, mid to late thirties radio guy came up to a few of us Dryve dudes and said, “Hey would you guys like to do a spot on a local radio station?” Of course we said yes as any promotion is great, so he took us on a long walk past the kids with the giant cotton candy and the dads with the “dc talk’ shirts and the frumpy mid west moms with the 1985 hairdos. (Not that there’s anything wrong with all that…)
Along the way he told us about the station and how it was one of the biggest CCM stations in…whatever state we were in (“Hello Cleveland!! …or is this Detroit?). Really a nice guy -asked us about the band and where we were headed to next and all the usual questions you get asked on tour.
So we finally make it to the radio booth and he explained how it was going to go down.
“I’m going to introduce you guys, say where you’re from, what time and what stage you are playing on. Then I’ll ask you a few questions…OK?”
Cool. Yeah. Done it a million times before.
So he gets on the radio and starts on the normal spiel- “Hi this is blah blah with KGOD radio and I’m here with a band called ‘Dryve’ all the way from San Diego and yada yada yada…”
Normal enough stuff. No big deal. Then it got weird. And uncomfortable. Out of the blue.
After going through the normal stuff with a typical peppy ‘radio guy’ vibe he out of nowhere turns into a southern hellfire and brimstone TV preacher caricature and goes , “So let me ask you guys, what has JEEEEESUUUS done in your lives?”
Uhhh… first, where did the Jimmy Swaggert vibe come from and second… what?!
This is where not being the singer is very cool because Mike (bass) and I looked at Cory like, “Sorry dude, it’s on you…”
“Uh…well…um…” Cory stammered, “”Uh, it’s kinda hard to just sum that up in a sentence or two…”
I don’t think that’s what Casey Kasem-Swaggert was looking for.
He was cool about it as Cory squeaked out something about something and Mike and I stood there in amazement at what just happened. I mean, we all had some profound spiritual experiences that were definitely worth talking about but this was something strange.
I sometimes wondered what the guy would have done if one of us said, “I used to be a serious, chronic, compulsive bedwetter…but not anymore…”
What if it were true? I don’t think he was looking for that either.
Well, this experience led me to realize one thing about ‘CCM’ that I think is a problem.
In the world of Christian music -the business of Christian music markets your faith.
Like an attitude. Or a cute face. Or a hot body.
“Hey everybody, ya’ll should come see dryve and buy their record because they REEEEEALLY love Jesus!! Here -listen!!”
Yuk.
Now I know, I know…most people don’t realize this and this radio dude probably didn’t realize it and he probably didn’t mean any harm. It’s just that the ‘business’ of Christian music has turned into such a beast of its own with it’s own code of conduct that people get brainwashed and begin to treat your faith like a really cool logo. It becomes a selling point.
Something doesn’t feel right about that.
There’s only one being that measures faith and it ain’t the head of marketing at Sparrow records.
*When the Rolling Stones turned 40 Charlie Watts was asked what it felt like to have played in a band for forty years. He said, “I think the actual time I’ve played in the Stones has been about a year and the other 39 years was waiting around…” I had no idea what he was talking about until I started touring.
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So what did your singer guy end up saying? I would just say that he saved my soul but that sounds cliche too…but it’s true!
”Uh, it’s kinda hard to just sum that up in a sentence or two…”
I have found that the one problem with “christian music” (not that there is) but the one problem I found is that it only appeals to Christians. Not that it is a bad thing since I am a Christian, more so a lover of God. But when most Christians decide to embark on a “non-Christian” music roll they are shunned by the Christian community. When all the musicians are trying to do is share the Love of Jesus with the rest of the world. Trust me as a Christian musician I know and have dwelt with this.
It’s unfortunate that much of Christianity has turned into a subculture that reacts so negatively when someone doesn’t follow the ‘dress code’. I experienced it as well. And bands that are really successful don’t get a break either, e.g. P.O.D. and Switchfoot. A few weeks ago I was having a conversation with Mark Foreman -the father of the Jon and Tim of Switchfoot and he was saying the biggest flak they got was from Christians who said they weren’t forward enough about the Gospel… Even James Dobson said something negative about P.O.D. doing the Monsters of Rock tour a few years back. Those guys were bummed when they heard about that because they love James Dobson. Isn’t that where Christians are supposed to be? In the world but not of it?
I agree completely. I get really excited when I see “former” christian bands make it in the real world. There are so many bands that toured the Christian circuit that I have seen way before the rest of the world caught on, and I applaud them for having the ability to make it in the big big world of music and still have the courage to keep their positive messages. People the world over – Christian or not – like hearing songs that make them feel good. You can still sing about God and all that is good without being preachy. Sometimes people just want to sing along and be moved. Dryve toured Columbus, Ohio back in the late 90’s, and I remember seeing you guys at a bar, none of my Christian friends would go, but hearing you play Rain live…. God doesn’t just live in church.
Columbus Ohio eh? What a coincidence, I just connected with a guy today whose dad was a promoter at a show we did in Columbus. So the friends wouldn’t go to the bar…One of the best shows I remember was when we played a bar in Lincoln, Nebraska with The Call and when we did Rain people cheered. And there was nobody from any churches. That what was we wanted to do -touch people where nobody else goes…
I’m the guy from Columbus whose Dad did promoting.
I think I was at that bar show (I was at a lot of shows though, all blurs together). Because Columbus has a major Christian Rock format station (and did way back in 1996), a lot of bands got exposure for shows they were playing in hole int he wall venues (including bars).
The friends not going in problem was huge. That’s why the promoter my Dad was part of booked primarily churches… but man churches had no idea how to do a rock show right!
To this day, I still prefer to see artists in small local venues. Not because I am a snob about sound or being “into” a band before anyone else – but because the atmosphere can be set just-so, and the crowd can connect to a band in a certain way.
I love my prog rock shows, with perfect sound and stage-presence (Talking “Porcupine Tree” here), but there’s something about seeing mewithoutYou in a dive bar with bands I’ve never heard of that fits the experience just right. Never could get that in the church venues.
Yeah…there’s an energy and connection that happens in those spaces… It’s hard to get that in large scale situations oftentimes for the band because they will have to rely on a monitor system which is usually inadequate.
Hey Keith, that show in Lincoln is one of my best memories too.
I remember the giant guitar behind the stage. People cheered during the song. Remember also people would say stuff like, “you guys have a good vibe” or “I feel positive Karma”.
An open door to share for sure.
I think it was after that show ‘The Call’ started to like us.
This is still a classic post…You should read a book entitled ‘Jesus In America.’ Which basically sums up your experience with the Radio D.J. The book discusses the business/ commercial marketing of Christianity…Lemme know your thoughts if you get around to reading it.
Correction: Jesus Made In America
My bad…
Keith, when I was touring with Sixpence we did the rounds with a lot of Mainstream radio. I remember one Dj told me that he liked that band Jars of Clay but thought they preached too much. I thought that was funny because all the Christian radio stations thought they were too worldly. What a wreck. The world would be a better place without Christian Rock sub-culture. I, as you could imagine, could bore you for hours on my take on Christian Music. My desire would be to hear more music created by people that truly know God and know there instrument/craft. It’s funny we always seem to get exposed to the extremes. I think it’s that marketing guy at Sparrows fault.
The Christian rock subculture. Yuck. That’s what it is -a ‘culture’. So much of it is not about the music, it’s about fitting the role or stereotype. Or not.
Keith, just want to say first off that I just came across the blog today and appreciate it. I first ‘discovered’ Dryve back in the late 90’s through the 5 minute walk CDs. Listening to ‘Nervous’ helped me to remember why I liked y’all in the first place. I’ve been a pastor for about 15 years (8 in Lincoln – I wish I would’ve known that you were playing there, I would’ve come to the concert), and I tell people that I’m not a ‘normal’ Christian – in the sense that I don’t try to fit stereotypes of what people think a pastor ought to be. I try not to ‘look like a pastor.’ I like the same for the music I listen to, from Mark Heard to Bob Bennett to Vigilantes of Love to Dryve, etc. – that it is real – to resonate with real life is important.
However, I think that something’s missing in the discussion here, which helps to explain the vortex you were sucked into as a band. Music within the life of the catholic church has a distinct purpose that is clear biblically, which is worship. Additionally, we humans naturally seek to exalt things that are done with excellence, and so those performers / groups who sing music that is God-exalting and worship inspiring are going to find a place within the church.
Bands like Dryve and Switchfoot, singer-songwriters like Bob Bennett and Mark Heard have a more difficult time finding a place, because they don’t fit that niche. Instead, these performers / groups sing out a narrative of how it looks to try to live out their faith in a real world environment. I would compare the first to the Psalms, the second to the books of Genesis, Judges, Kings, Esther – books that describe lives lived imperfectly under the umbrella of God’s grace.
The fly in this ointment is the confusion of these two categories. The difference goes beyond the style of music that is played. For in the first category, there is a reasonable expectation that musical performers are ‘ministering’ as they facilitate worship in the church. Part and parcel of this expectation is the idea that such musicians are ‘qualified’ to serve in this capacity, meaning that there is some depth and maturity in their walk with Christ – that ‘Christian musicians’ are pastors, who sing and play rather than preach (this helps to explain the awkward radio interview).*
In the second category are musicians who are Christians who are looking to play and sing. These performers may or may not be spiritually mature; they may or may not be comfortable with putting their faith ‘on display;’ they may or may not be ‘preachers who sing’ (BTW, I am not trying to imply that what these performers do is ‘not ministry,’ merely that it is not that specialized ‘church-oriented’ ministry). I would liken it to a factory worker who is a Christian, music is the business that these performers do (that’s not a bad thing). The problem is that when a group stands in front of a ‘Christian’ audience, those audiences assume the first type of group and don’t know what to do with the second.
Now, there are a myriad of reasons for this phenomenon: the whole entertainment culture that has grown up in our country in the past 70 years, Jesus freak musicians getting saved, the attempt to help the church be relevant to the world as far as music is concerned, Christians wanting to listen to good music that they can pass along to their friends, etc. These bear looking into more fully, but I should get home to spend time with my family.
My own approach is to try to minister to all the people in our culture, especially those in the congregation I serve.
Well said Jeff, You are on the right track. It is hard to explain it in a quick sound bite or blog post. My old friend Charlie Peacock wrote a book trying to articulate the whole mess. I think he gets pretty close to what I have experienced in my brief tenure.
I wonder how David handled himself while he was playing before Saul. I wonder if he snuck in some secular tunes once in a while. I wonder if Saul noticed. I hope I remember to ask him when I get to heaven. Of course then Music and most definately christian music will pale in comparison to singing to God on his throne with all living creatures. I’m sure I will be embarrassed that I put so much focus on music in my life. Again that doesn’t make music wrong, It makes my idolatry of music wrong. Thanks for serving your church wherever you are Jeff.
Great response Jeff, and completely true. Especially the part about the Church not knowing what to do with the second group. I think things have changed a bit though. Then again, I don’t live in the midwest… Bob Bennett- I love that guy. I’ve seen him play a couple of times. Amazing. Songs from Bright Ave is one of my favorite, um, ‘Christian’ records haha.
Tony- I have Peacock’s book sitting on my desk in my ‘must read’ pile. He has spoken at my church a few times -he’s great. My church is pastored by Mark Foreman, father of the Foreman brothers of Switchfoot so he visits on occasion having that, “I discovered you” connection haha…
Keith & Tony, Thanks. I first picked up Songs from Bright Avenue when it was on sale at CBD for $1.98, because they didn’t know what to do with his divorce. The genuine pathos on that cd, from ‘Co-dependent love’ to ‘my secret heart’ makes you think. A friend and I went to see him in concert – just him and his guitar. He is an amazing singer-songwriter. I have a few Charlie Peacock cds and have enjoyed Sixpence. I started thinking about Dryve yesterday when a friend asked me if I remembered the band Dime Store Prohets, and then I pulled up your cd’s again. It has been an enjoyable afternoon.
I do think it is better to some degree (of course, planting a church, I have the opportunity to help people focus beyond some of the insanity: ‘is such-and-such a group Christian enough?’). But the bigger issue is how the church engages culture. It is a well-known phenomenon that within a few years after a person becomes a Christian they no longer have any non-Christian friends. Part of this is biological: if we find real and satisfying relationships within the body of Christ we tend to gravitate towards those friendships. At the same time as we grow in our relationship with Christ we find we have fewer things in common with our ‘old’ friends. What this means is that we must be both creative and deliberate in creating those opportunities to build friendships with those outside the church. But that is hard, so we tend to retreat into a mindset (a culture) that seeks out what is ‘safe’ and comfortable.
Now, if Christians would continue growing from this ‘safe’ plateau, they would eventually come to the place where they incorporate the world into their theology. But this where the marketing comes in, offering us the opportunity to shield ourselves from the hurting and suffering in the world and stay ‘safe.’ The large companies have learned how to market to the Christian community and, as a result, our homes are filled with Thomas Kincaide paintings with Bible verses under them (not mine). Again, this isn’t all bad. It’s part of necessary growth in Christ. But if we get stuck there, we end up with shallow Christians, with no depth and virtually none of Jesus’ concern for those outside the church.
Well, enough rambling. I appreciate your music and your ministry. It’s hard to walk that tightrope – to be in the world but not of the world – and kudos to you who live that out in a difficult place.
Personal notes: I live in Hebron, NE (south-central) where I am planting a church. I get together and jam with a few friends (we’ve played some Sixpence).